Colt Knight: 00:19
Welcome to the Maine Farmcast. I am your host, Dr. Colt Knight, associate extension professor and state livestock specialist for the University of Maine Cooperative Extension. And today, I am joined by Ms. Courtney Morse of the Robinson Insurance Agency. I don’t know the exact name of the company. You’re gonna have to
Courtney Morse: 00:40
That’s okay. Yeah. We’re a small business. So we’re located out of Brewer, Maine. It’s just me, Courtney, and my boss, Joe.
Courtney Morse: 00:47
But it’s Joe Robinson, the Robinson Agency Insurance and Financial Services. But I specialize in the insurance aspect and he specializes in the financial aspect. So the insurance aspect that I do is supporting and providing agribusiness, hobby farming, anything agricultural related. I can talk to you and guide you through what you might need or get you what you need.
Colt Knight: 01:13
So we had actually a couple requests from listeners to talk about farm insurance. And I asked a whole bunch of people last year at the Ag Trades Show if they’d like to come on, and they all said yes, and then none of them showed up. And then Courtney cold called me one day and asked me if I wanted to buy farm insurance for my farm. And I said, no, I’m all set there. But, you know, I would love to have you on the podcast to talk about farm insurance to the
Courtney Morse: 01:42
I did. I reached out about a couple months ago, I think, before the new year. And I know
Colt Knight: 01:48
It was crazy because I was on paternity leave when you did call and then playing catch up from that. And it’s amazing how long things take
Courtney Morse: 01:59
to resituate themselves. Being persistent and still making that offer with no obligation and just educating who I reach out to or letting them know what I can do for you is just what I aim to do.
Colt Knight: 02:13
So Courtney, we would love to get to know you a little better. Do you have an ag background or did you
Courtney Morse: 02:20
I grew up in Maine, so I feel like everybody north of, say, Central Maine kind of has an ag background, especially in rural Maine. I grew up in Unity. So being around that, I’m sure every part of your listeners knows where Unity is. But yeah, I went to what they would call “Cow Patty High.” So I did some farm work during high school. We didn’t have a family farm, but I took care of a lot of livestock during that time.
Courtney Morse: 02:47
Chicken sat throughout or, you know, cleaned the stalls. I’m no stranger to what’s important to people in the agricultural industry and what they need.
Colt Knight: 02:58
And so how did you get into insurance?
Courtney Morse: 03:03
I went to the University of Maine, actually. So I studied bioengineering. And after that, I went to the Jackson Laboratory. So I was working more in animal husbandry, learning animal behavior and some parts of genetics to breed colonies specifically for research. And doing that through the pandemic, luckily I had a job and just wanted a change of pace, but I still wanted to keep helping people.
Courtney Morse: 03:34
That’s my passion, just helping people and seeing my work in my community, which I really like to do and take pride in. So seeing my help and assistance thriving in the community, I just went back to the Bangor Brewer area where I was commuting from to the Jackson Lab, a hundred miles a day, fifty some miles there, fifty some miles back. And then I had a job call me that was like, I’m looking for an assistant. So I learned everything to be an executive assistant. I got my property and casualty license.
Courtney Morse: 04:12
I got my life license and then started specializing in agribusiness and agriculture. And we work specifically with what’s called Farm Family. So Farm Family and American National are one and the same, but Farm Family, if you say that name in insurance, people will go, oh, okay. Like we insure the majority of the farms in Maine and we’ve been here for over a hundred years now. Very strong financial company, which we want if you’re building a business and protecting your investment.
Courtney Morse: 04:49
So I really just liked seeing my work in the community and the help I could give. And I really just took a passion for that. And I have a five year dream now. We have some land out in Kenduskeag. So we have a house and just get into the hobby farming sort of thing with some goats and just more sustainable agriculture is what I have an interest in. But we do everything from equine equestrian facilities to, you know, full on beef parlors.
Colt Knight: 05:22
Okay. So I just got a ton of questions. Yeah.
Courtney Morse: 05:25
I know. That was a lot.
Colt Knight: 05:26
And I’m probably gonna bounce around back and forth. But so my story with insurance, so I bought a farm in Garland, Maine.
Courtney Morse: 05:35
Perfect.
Colt Knight: 05:36
And, you know, I was up front with the insurer and everything and then the big storm came through. I was combined with my auto insurance, home, you know, everything. A big storm came through, blew the shingles off my barn and tore up my garage doors. Well, the adjuster came out and we were doing the walk through and he was like, what is all this stuff? And I was like, oh, I build guitars in this garage slash barn.
Colt Knight: 06:06
Well, they canceled my insurance. They said it was because I was running a business.
Courtney Morse: 06:14
Sure.
Colt Knight: 06:15
And it’s like, it’s not a business. It’s like I build one a year.
Courtney Morse: 06:19
And, you know, it’s incidental. And that was, were you on a policy specifically for agriculture? No. Right.
Colt Knight: 06:27
Just a regular homeowners.
Courtney Morse: 06:29
And that’s what we see a lot of, and that’s where I kind of would love to spread the word on the problem with that, of being underinsured or not letting your insurer know what’s going on. You know, guitars are very low risk. So you don’t think to do that. But when you do something besides personal or just your personal residence, you do expose yourself to some sort of risk. So having that relationship with your agent, let them know, hey, I’m doing this or I’m doing that.
Courtney Morse: 07:00
They can deny a claim if you have livestock on your property and they’re not aware, profiting even a farm stand at the end. And so that’s where the farm package that we provide combines personal, business, and livestock liability all in one, which is niche to the industry in itself.
Courtney Morse: 07:21
Yeah. And that was the other thing. It’s like my wife owns a dog grooming business too.
Courtney Morse: 07:25
Great.
Colt Knight: 07:25
And then we found that it was really tough to get insurance for that because people were coming on and off the property, you know, on a daily and weekly basis. So when it comes to farms, I guess we gotta get right into it. And it’s like
Courtney Morse: 07:40
You really do. And you have to have a relationship to be honest and open and know that they’ll have the best interest of you in mind.
Colt Knight: 07:46
Yeah. And I guess there’s all kinds of farms and situations that you might want insurance for. But what stands out to me, and then maybe you could add to this as well, is one, we’ve got just a traditional farm, where you’re doing either livestock or crop work on your property. Correct. And then you’re selling that
Courtney Morse: 08:06
wholesale. Then somewhere
Colt Knight: 08:09
there is more of the agritourism side of things. And then we’ve got folks that have show livestock.
Courtney Morse: 08:17
Correct.
Colt Knight: 08:17
And then they’re going to be moving those livestock in and around and about and whatnot. And then I guess there’s also places that have on-farm sales.
Courtney Morse: 08:28
Yes. Yeah, exactly. This is all very common. And sometimes where, you know, you’re not an insurance specialist or an agribusiness specialist in insurance, there’s a lot to think about. So when I provide a comprehensive look at everything, we do everything from, you know, a full dairy operation that provides wholesale to Oakhurst to, hey, I want to try and grow cucumbers and start a farm stand and go to the Bangor Farmers Market every week. They need certificates of insurance for that.
Courtney Morse: 09:01
And you can spread yourself across multiple policies, but the easiest way to protect yourself the best is just have it all together. And a lot of times we see, you know, if they’re doing livestock shows, they’ve also got the trailers. They might be hauling their products. So then you get into the business automobile coverage and maybe even umbrella coverage to blanket everything together. God forbid something drastic happens, you have another layer.
Courtney Morse: 09:29
And just having that opportunity with Farm Family gives me a lot to offer people. Mhmm. And they just don’t know.
Colt Knight: 09:37
Well, your typical auto insurance, so if I’ve got my truck insured, if a tornado comes through and the barn falls over on the truck, the truck is covered. Yes. But if I’m pulling a trailer to either drop off livestock or go to a show or something, the trailer has no insurance on it. Or is it covered under the auto insurance?
Courtney Morse: 10:01
Technically, it has no physical damage insurance. So there’s no, if you have a high value trailer, there’s not going to be damage protection if you don’t have it covered specifically for year, value, and VIN number. However, the liability always follows the vehicle that’s doing the towing, similar to a fifth wheel or a camper. However, if they’re not aware that you’re hauling livestock or products, that’s where it can get tricky.
Courtney Morse: 10:36
Because if it’s a camper, you can just haul that and it’s all personal, not doing anything for business. It’s when you get involved with businesses where if you want the full protection, you need to have a business auto or agribusiness auto insurance policy to cover everything altogether and give you those limits you need of over a million or a million.
Colt Knight: 11:00
Mhmm. And then the other thing that I learned through my insurance snafu, it’s like my buildings were insured for damage, but nothing on the inside of the buildings was covered. And I assumed that it covered the stuff that I put inside the building, but that wasn’t the case. So when we have a barn on our farm, it’s full of either livestock, equipment, seed, feed, hay, all this kind of stuff.
Courtney Morse: 11:33
It gets quite expensive. Oh, you know, that adds up quick. I know the bale of hay right now is upwards of, I don’t know.
Colt Knight: 11:39
I mean, the contents might exceed the value of the barn.
Courtney Morse: 11:41
Sure, exactly. And some people only want limited coverage on the barn. You know, they don’t want to pay for direct physical loss or damage because it’s a really old barn, but they want fire protection. I’m able to tailor directly to what you need specifically. It’s not just a blanket homeowners policy where you assume you have the coverage.
Courtney Morse: 12:02
We talk through what is important to you. Liability, do you want to cover your livestock as products themselves, products in storage, tools that you use, machinery. And so the list goes on of things that you can insure on one policy for your agribusiness. Typically, we encourage you to insure it altogether, and that’s why it’s a great offer.
Colt Knight: 12:29
So what are some products and liabilities that farmers should consider for their farms? And how does that change once we start showing livestock and when we start having on-farm farm stands or agritourism where people are visiting?
Courtney Morse: 12:49
Great. Yeah. That’s a perfect question. Thank you. And it’s a common question because it’s coming up a lot. You know, hey, I’m thinking about doing this. I will try and guide you in a risk analysis and guide you in the best way to do that within your coverages. And usually we can work together. There are very, very limited things that I can’t cover because we are leading in the agricultural industry. We want to adapt to you.
Courtney Morse: 13:21
So a lot of times we’ve added product supplies and tools coverage. So your hay in storage, if you are a potato farmer and you have rotating crops and there’s average values throughout the month, you can take the average value and have limited coverage throughout the year depending on your inventory. Products that are refrigerated, like meats, those can be insured against as well.
Courtney Morse: 13:48
But one of the really big things that people don’t think of is just having livestock in general adds that liability on. So some people aren’t aware that their home insurance could be null and void or non renewed like you if they have a sheep, two horses, or they’re making more than $2,500 with the farm stand at the end of the road on or off premises.
Courtney Morse: 14:18
So it’s really once you get to this cap of making over $2,000, which isn’t a lot in this day and age, it is once you’re in a startup, of course. You know, it takes a lot to do what you guys do. But once you outgrow your home insurance, which is very common, it’s when you come talk to an agribusiness specialist in insurance.
Colt Knight: 14:45
And then if you own an equine facility.
Courtney Morse: 14:52
Yeah.
Colt Knight: 14:52
I did that growing up. We had a stable and always had rotating people coming in, and people were always getting hurt, horses were hurting themselves. It was a three ring circus. And I would imagine an insurance liability nightmare. What are some concerns that they would have that you would have on an equine facility?
Courtney Morse: 15:17
A well lit facility is important. Usually an equine facility has paddocks that they’ll run into or pole barns, indoor or outdoor arena. So just a really well open facility that is fluid in motion. And there will be signage to say safe equine practices. Maine state law does require some equine signs to be up.
Courtney Morse: 15:48
We have our own company requirements. So a hold harmless agreement will be in place, and we’ll make sure that you have the adequate experience to ensure providing those lessons. Or make sure if you’re hiring somebody on for a clinic, we’ll provide the liability of them coming on your property.
Colt Knight: 16:09
Does posting those signs that say engaging in agricultural practices is dangerous or may cause harm, does that provide you any liability? Or is that just something people do to make themselves feel better?
Courtney Morse: 16:26
We’re pretty well protected, you know, if people take on that liability to step on the property in general, but that sign adds an extra layer of liability. So you can say, you know, I verbally told them there’s signs and there’s a written agreement. So there’s all three bases covered. And if somebody gets injured, which that’s almost
Colt Knight: 16:51
a given.
Courtney Morse: 16:51
Yeah. The equine industry. But we also can do so much with equine where it’s a different sort of agricultural exposure all the way from equine therapy to full on boarding facility.
Colt Knight: 17:10
And so you’ve been doing this for a little while. What are some of the most common things that you see for insurance claims?
Courtney Morse: 17:22
Kind of similar to what you said. Like you think something’s covered and it’s not. You’re like, wow, I figured that would be covered. So some things that they think are covered are not understanding their coverages and what they need.
Courtney Morse: 17:45
That’s why it’s important to really stress what you need and what you’re looking for more. Did you just put up a brand new $250,000 barn that you want full coverage for, or do you want to take off some premium that would potentially give you some more business money to use throughout the year if you don’t have that much invested in it?
Courtney Morse: 18:00
The claims I see a lot are honestly slip and trips. I do see some liability. So making sure, like I said, the area is well lit. But typically they don’t extend very long. We have a very easy claims process and that’s why we really work with a specific group of people who take what they do very seriously too.
Courtney Morse: 18:34
You know, they know that what they’re doing isn’t something everybody is doing, running an equestrian facility or a dairy operation or a fiber mill, for example. So it really ranges what we see. But a lot of the times on high value buildings, if there’s siding or, like you said, the wind on the roof, that’s what I see a lot of. But that’s typically what we protect against in Maine.
Colt Knight: 18:51
Gotcha. Yeah. And so what products do you recommend to let’s say you’re a new farmer. You started out as a homesteader type and then you decided to start selling some meat or fiber or vegetables. What do you start recommending to those type of folks?
Courtney Morse: 19:11
I would say congratulations, kudos, everything. It’s a passion hobby. So I would say take a look at your home coverage right now. Oftentimes home and business for agriculture go hand in hand. So see what your home coverage covers. Typically it’s not enough for your liability for events or markets.
Courtney Morse: 19:27
So needing that extra liability kind of puts you out of the homeowner’s market in general. So then you would look for what’s called a special farm package to tie in what you need to insure your residence, any outbuildings, machinery, products, and liability.
Courtney Morse: 20:16
Once you start using your vehicle for delivery, service, or goods transport, that’s when you need a business auto policy. And I always encourage an umbrella just because it’s an extra layer of liability which covers both your business auto and your special farm package together.
Courtney Morse: 20:44
God forbid something drastic happens and there’s a liability claim that exceeds a million. Medical bills are increasing every day by the second. So having that extra layer of liability that would kick in after those policies are exhausted just gives you that extra layer depending on what you need to protect your assets.
Colt Knight: 20:44
Mhmm.
Courtney Morse: 20:45
And a good rule of thumb is to make sure your liability covers your assets.
Courtney Morse: 20:57
I’ve seen a few policy reviews where they have a half million dollar home and $100,000 in personal liability, which doesn’t make sense because you have more to lose.
Colt Knight: 21:02
Mhmm. So if you get sued for more than $100,000 they could come after your house.
Courtney Morse: 21:02
Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So just things to think about. And if a cow gets out or an animal gets out and gets into the road, I have seen that before in my four years now in insurance and it has caused an accident. Thankfully, everybody was okay, but with the cost of medical, vehicles out of work, you never know how far that can go really. So just making sure you’re protected in the beginning.
Colt Knight: 21:32
So Maine would be a closed range state, which means you have the responsibility to fence your animals in, correct? When I lived out west, there were several states that were actually open range states. So if the cow gets in the road and you hit it, then you have to pay the rancher for the cow.
Courtney Morse: 21:47
And see, that’s where it’s a little bit different. So it’s good to know your policy in and out, what your policy covers because livestock liability is different than mortality coverage too, which a lot of people think are the same.
Courtney Morse: 22:33
Liability would cover you if you cause any damage or are legally liable for anything. However, it doesn’t cover your animals as business assets. So if they die from respiratory illness or a direct fire, or I’ve seen lightning hit a tree and come down and there’s livestock. They are high value. They take a long time and they are important to the business. So knowing what you need and knowing who to ask is really important.
Colt Knight: 23:12
I was in South Dakota, this is fifteen years or so ago, and all the cows were lined up on a fence line, barbed wire fence line. There were forty some cows, and lightning struck that barbed wire fence and it killed every single one down through. Lightning strikes are very common in South Dakota because there’s no trees and they don’t have shelter for those animals. They’re just out in basically big wheat field type situations.
Courtney Morse: 23:18
That could be very detrimental to a business that’s using those livestock day in and day out.
Colt Knight: 23:21
Yeah. We saw lightning strikes quite a bit up there.
Courtney Morse: 23:23
That’s too bad. We have freezing up here too, which is not super common, but some things to think about, fire, freezing.
Colt Knight: 23:31
And so that’s if you’ve got just kind of a traditional livestock farm. What if you’re in the show animal world and you’re transporting your stuff to county fairs and to and from constantly?
Courtney Morse: 23:44
Yeah. And so that kind of is more on the commercial side. Although we do provide
Colt Knight: 23:55
So most of that would be on the venue and not on you.
Courtney Morse: 23:58
Correct. And your liability is for you on and off the premises. So that’s the best part. If you have a horse that you’re bringing or a cow, sheep, anything, that’s your, it’s almost like your dog. If you bring your dog, you’re still covered by personal liability on your home insurance.
Courtney Morse: 24:27
So as long as you have the off premises coverage, whether you’re doing a demonstration there or you’re competing in a show, like you said, you have the coverage to do that. Now if you’re trying to protect your animal itself while it’s in the vehicle, that’s called motor truck cargo insurance. So it’s similar to having product that you’re transporting as a trucker, but it’s for your animal instead.
Colt Knight: 24:49
Yeah. Most of our show families in Maine, we don’t have super expensive show livestock, but if you go some of those places out west and Midwest, some of those animals might be insured for a quarter of a million or half a million.
Courtney Morse: 25:02
Right.
Colt Knight: 25:03
And don’t get me started on the expensive show horse circuit. Those get nuts.
Courtney Morse: 25:08
It’s insane how big everything is and how expensive. So it’s important to just know what’s important to you to protect and have that conversation. Have the difficult conversation of the what if. What if this were to happen? What would you do?
Colt Knight: 25:23
Mhmm.
Courtney Morse: 25:26
What if this were to happen? What would you do?
Colt Knight: 25:39
And as you’re dealing with folks, what are some of the biggest regrets that you see when people find out that things aren’t covered or they should have covered?
Courtney Morse: 25:39
Not informing us of an exposure that was on the property. Sometimes there are specific coverages that are included. You know, if there’s a new build for thirty days, you’ll have $5,000 of coverage. But oftentimes, if we’re not aware of a building, we can’t insure it.
Courtney Morse: 26:02
I know those buildings on farms could go up quick. They can come down quick too. So same as not being informed about a new building that’s going up, having something that you’ve sold like a truck and you don’t tell me for six months, unfortunately, that’s something I can’t just give that six months back to you unless you show me proof of transfer of a deed or a title or something like that.
Courtney Morse: 26:38
So the most common things I hear are just, oh man, I wish I informed my agent sooner that I don’t have that anymore. Or I’m not doing lessons on my property anymore. A trainer’s coming on. Something like that. Just keeping us up to date is really the best thing I can ask.
Colt Knight: 26:41
Very good. And then so if we’re wanting to get into the agritourism business and come fall or spring we’re expecting large amounts of foot traffic, how does that change versus just a simple farm stand or a pick your own vegetable type place?
Courtney Morse: 27:05
Where they kind of go hand in hand most of the time. The agritourism in the fall, the corn mazes, you’re often picking pumpkins. So they do go hand in hand and we notice that. So our policy provides that.
Courtney Morse: 27:51
We have the option of doing a corn maze, having volunteer coverage for people that come on and volunteer for you. They’re considered part of your operation at that time. And including pick your own pumpkins or a petting area with goats, concessions, food trucks on the property. We ask that you have them provide their own insurance, but you leasing your land to the food truck is what you would be doing. So that’s something that’s possible too.
Courtney Morse: 28:23
There’s all different ways. Farmers are very creative with how they adapt and find things to offer new. So every fall especially I’m getting questions about what if we did this? Could we do that?
Courtney Morse: 28:45
And I think it’s great. I don’t have a problem with going to my underwriter in the Northeast and saying we’re the leader in agritourism right now and this is what we’re doing. This is the way the industry is going. And so I’ve done that before and been able to do something I’ve never even heard of like some hay volleyball thing. They’re just doing a ball over some hay.
Courtney Morse: 28:57
But just making sure all of your liabilities are covered is very important. But there’s no issue with public on and off, even school. The Cooperative Extension, I know farms that work directly with them to educate students at their farm. That’s covered by our farm package.
Colt Knight: 29:20
Is there a cutoff on foot traffic? When I asked about my wife’s business they were always asking how many people. It was a different set once we got to eight people or more a week. Does that hold true on the farming side?
Courtney Morse: 29:20
It depends really on the exposure. Sometimes the exposure is just a flat premium that you’re going to get. That’s what they have decided having five horses on the property is going to be. Sometimes it’s based on the foot traffic or the sales. So depending on what it’s rated on is depending on what you’re going to pay.
Courtney Morse: 30:27
But there’s really no limit on foot traffic. Once you get into sales well over $100,000 is where we discuss a commercial liability policy on top of that to make sure we’re just reaching that revenue coverage.
Colt Knight: 30:36
So is there anything else that you would like us to know about farm insurance?
Courtney Morse: 30:43
I think no. I think I hit it on the head with just have the difficult conversation. I know it’s not something you want to think about, but the what ifs. What if the barn were to burn down? What about everything in it? What if your livestock got out? What can you do to protect yourself?
Courtney Morse: 31:03
So just have the conversation. I treat every conversation as an opportunity, but there’s no obligation. So just educate yourself and do that in the best way possible.
Colt Knight: 31:14
Well, Courtney, it was great having you on the podcast.
Courtney Morse: 31:17
It’s a pleasure as well.
Colt Knight: 31:18
And we know sometimes these aren’t as fun topics. You talk about insurance or some of the bad things that can happen. But we’ve actually talked about crop insurance and different government insurance programs that we have for farming and stuff, but we’ve never talked about these type of farm policies that most people are probably either unaware exist or don’t know if they need them or not, or they just assume their homeowners will cover it.
Colt Knight: 31:58
And then I think most of us learn that homeowners doesn’t cover this stuff when we get denied or canceled and then we have to go find new insurance.
Courtney Morse: 31:58
Exactly. And if you’re non renewed or canceled, that’s something we’re aware of too. So you just want to make sure you’re being in the best spot for yourself.
Colt Knight: 32:08
And then you said that your agency actually will bundle.
Courtney Morse: 32:11
Oh yeah.
Colt Knight: 32:12
Car insurance.
Courtney Morse: 32:13
For sure. Yeah. Homeowners. Yep. The farm package puts your home on there. Of course if it’s deeded to a different entity, a lot of people have an LLC, we deal with that, or a trust as well. We might have multiple policies for the same property. But yeah, anything that involves a business, I can take care of.
Colt Knight: 32:35
Very good. Well, thanks everyone for listening. And if you have questions, comments, concerns, more suggested episodes, feel free to email us at extension.farmcast@maine.edu. That was fun.
Courtney Morse: 32:54
Definitely. Thank you. I was a little nervous at the beginning. You could probably tell, but thank you.