Colt Knight: 00:24

Welcome to the Maine Farmcast. I am your host, Dr. Colt Knight, associate extension professor and state livestock specialist for the University of Maine Cooperative Extension. And I have, once again, on the blue couch in Orono, Maine, here on campus, my good friend, colleague, beef cattle specialist from the University of Kentucky, Dr. Jeff Lehmkuhler, the man, myth, legend, right here in person with us today.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 01:00

I don’t know, Colt. That’s an awful big introduction there. I think I like the blue couches. Will say that. I wasn’t real happy that you made me hold a stuffed pig a while ago.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 01:11

But given that you have this love for hogs, I will I will tolerate it. I see a sheep, a pig, but I didn’t

Colt Knight: 01:20

have any problem eating the bacon wrapped scallops.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 01:23

This is true. This is true. But I’m not seeing a calf in here yet. So we gotta get you a calf in the studio, man.

Colt Knight: 01:32

I have a cow footstool that I was thinking about bringing in here, but that’s also my, GPS collar demonstration model that I keep in my office when I do, Zoom trainings with folks. So I haven’t moved it into the podcast studio. It remains in my office. We do have calves, like some kind of kitschy art deco calf art thing on the wall. So we are not without bovine representation in the studio.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 02:05

Is true. And and I will have to say we did, as the two of us, going in Jo-Ann Fabrics shopping, like we do. We did look for a calf and or a beef cow and we didn’t find anything.

Colt Knight: 02:23

Know, when you’re looking at commercial stuff, your best case scenario is Holstein. I don’t think I’ve ever seen beef cattle stuffed animals or toys unless you go straight to a farm store or something.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 02:36

That our

Colt Knight: 02:37

next

Colt Knight: 02:37

potential moneymaker is a brindle striped felt for these

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 02:37

Smith:

Colt Knight: 02:43

Yeah. Get some tiger striped cow blankets. Exactly.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 02:48

I’m all in.

Colt Knight: 02:51

That’s funny. Well, today, we’re going to talk about updates from your beef fecal egg count study and give people a better understanding of deworming and working with internal parasites in beef cattle.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 03:08

Yeah, Colt, I thought this would be something that would be good to chat about. We were one of a few states that collaborated with Merck Animal Health on looking at one, the prevalence of internal parasites and using the fecal eggs study to do that. And then the nice thing is this was all done on farm. And so it wasn’t an actual research study, it was more of a field study.

Colt Knight: 03:37

For those that aren’t familiar with what we’re talking about, companies like Merck, you can send in fecal samples, and they will test them to see if there’s any internal parasites and test how many internal parasites. And so basically, what you are doing is you’re sending in those fecal samples, and Merck is telling you whether your animals have a high or low persistence of parasites. One

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 04:03

Yeah, so they do that based on you know, knowing the lifecycle of a lot of our internal parasites and they go, you know, eggs are deposited through the feces, they go through the first two larval stages outside the animal, then it gets into the animal, that larva then develops into a mature adult and they begin shedding eggs then. Those eggs come out in the feces. And so that’s why we call it a fecal egg study. We’re not actually counting the number of mature internal parasites, but indirectly, get an idea of the level of burden that that animal has based on the

Colt Knight: 04:43

number

Colt Knight: 04:44

of eggs that are being shed by that animal.

Colt Knight: 04:46

You know, in the normal lifespan, those eggs would come out in the feces, they would develop, crawl out of the feces, go under the grass, the animals are gonna consume the grass and then therefore increase the internal parasite load within them. And so on a couple of our management strategies, you know, chain harrowing, that manure spreads it out increases the surface area, and allows the sun to desiccate those eggs and help kill them off quicker than if we left it in a nice, big wet pile.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 05:18

Yeah, and then in theory, you know, something like that may would work when You have a lot of moisture and dew though, you could argue that all you’re doing is contaminating more grass.

Colt Knight: 05:28

More of the grass.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 05:30

Yeah. So I think that’s, you know, for us, it’s management is key. We’re dealing with three week life cycle roughly, right? So, you know, just thinking about that whole life cycle on those internal parasites makes it a bit of a challenge, making sure you got enough time before you come back into a field to regraze it. But I always tell producers because they ask about rotational grazing and is it a good strategy and the literature if we truly dive in the science is kind of split because with intensive grazing, you increase the number of animals on a unit of land.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 06:07

There’s more feces deposited. So if you don’t give enough time, you could increase that level of infection. So it

Colt Knight: 06:17

location is a big deal. So if you’re in like a semi arid subtropical environment, there’s the rotational grazing versus continual grazing is a different argument.Jeff Lehmkuhler: 06:31

Terry Exactly.

Colt Knight: 06:32

But we are not in a subtropical or semi arid environment.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 06:37

No, we’re temperate climate and, you know, for us, we get somewhere in the ballpark of 50 to 60 inches of rain a year typically. So internal parasites can be a bit of a challenge. So, Merck wanted to work with us to, there’s five states they were going to do this in. And I know we are the second state that’s completed the study, Missouri completed theirs about a half, about six months ahead of us. And so they were interested in prevalence.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 07:08

So what is prevalence? Well, you mentioned that they’ve got some folks that will take those samples and look in at the eggs and can identify some of the species or genus of internal parasites based on the type of eggs there. So we get an idea of prevalence of and then also the number like you mentioned. And that data then helps us kind of say, Okay, what are we dealing with? And interestingly, we had 180 groups of cattle that we tested.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 07:43

They were split spring and fall, and we had a total of 180 groups. So, in each group, the ideal, we would get 20 fecal samples from a group. So, we read just around 7,000 fecal samples in this study. That’s a lot of crap. A lot of manure.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 08:04

But in that, what we found was interesting is our mature animals, relatively low fecal egg counts. And that makes some sense if you, you know, you talk to folks and we go and dive in the literature to mature animals actually build some immunity to internal parasites. And so, we think about those that are gonna be most impacted are those young calves on the cows, and then also our weaned calves and developing heifers. And so we saw much higher counts in younger livestock than we did in mature cows. So to be honest, we were focused on mature animals at the beginning of the study.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 08:45

As we got into it and started seeing the numbers coming in, we were asked to try to find some younger groups of cattle. So we shifted to try and get more soccer and background in calves in, in the second part of the study and give us a few more groups that had some higher fecal egg counts. Because the second part of what we were trying to do was to take a peek at the efficacy of the products that we have for controlling internal parasites. And we didn’t dictate what producers used. There’s a lot of things out there we can use now, right?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 09:19

And so what was it called in the 1960s roughly, I think when the white dewormers came out, you know, your bendazol, if you will. Yeah, the pastes, the pastes and the the you know, the the panicures and other products like that, if you will. And then that was in the 80s when ivomec was released. And the beauty with ivermec is what?

Colt Knight: 09:42

Dave

Colt Knight: 09:43

Multiple delivery mechanisms on that. And it worked amazing when it was

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 09:40

three Yeah, and and gave you could you could give injectable, you could give pour on. And so the pour on reduced from a beef quality assurance standpoint, reduce the number injections we had to give and the potential blemishes. And it gave us some protection, you know, long term protection.

Colt Knight: 10:08

Yes.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 10:08

So the challenge or the difference between the white paste dewormers is there’s very little carryover protection, you know, it it’s only active when it’s in the GI tract. Once it clears, it’s gone. And then some of those didn’t get inhibited, like stage three, stage four. So you know, there’s, there’s some challenges as we move on and we think about in the 80s, but we’re in what year and how many decades has that been?

Colt Knight: 10:38

forty years or so.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 10:40

forty Yeah, so that same product has been on the market and being used for a while. Then it, you know, the the generic forms of the Avramectin started to hit in the market.

Colt Knight: 10:50

Think I was at a conference. And I believe one of the big manufacturers said there really hasn’t been a new anthraleminic drug developed since the early 90s. All the new ones that are coming out are just combinations of the already existing drugs available.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 11:10

Yeah, yep. Exactly. You know, I went to South America in the early 2000s. When I was there, there was discussion about internal parasite resistance. And so I came back and dug in the literature then, you know, two decades ago and found supporting evidence for that.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 11:34

We had a veterinarian that was working for some of the pharmaceutical companies and have seen the resistance to some of the lice as well. So we know this is an issue and then we’ve seen this increase in small ruminants and equine. And so we wanted to look a little bit of efficacy beef cattle. And so one of the things we did since we didn’t dictate, we would just ask farmers what product or we would record what product they were using. And then we filtered the data.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 12:12

And the reason for that is when you’re looking at percentage reductions, if you start with a really low fecal egg count, you know, just a couple egg differences, a huge percentage change. So we had to put in where we had to have a minimum threshold of fecal eggs in the sample to be considered in the group. And the interesting thing is when we, you know, out of 180 groups, by the time we got done with the filtering that we did, you had to have at least 18 good samples. They had to be from the same age category. So you couldn’t have nine calves and nine cows to make your age group.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 12:57

They had to be all 18 cows or 18 to 20 calves. And so as we filtered all that through, you know, we lost probably 60 to 70% of our groups because of the low counts and the mature cows. Yeah. So that led me to one thing that began trying to promote to our producers was rather than blindly treat for internal parasites, work with your veterinarian to do fecal egg counts to think about strategic deworming?

Colt Knight: 13:32

We just had our veterinary diagnostic lab vet on the podcast and we were talking about this exact same thing, you know, the cost savings and the resistance prevention, you know, checking those fecal egg counts. Why give the animal a dewormer if there’s no warmers present? All you’re doing is possibly promoting more resistance. And we know some animals, the dewormer may last longer than others. And also, if you’re just on a regular schedule, but you’ve got, you may give a dewormer to an animal and they may shed all those those worms.

Colt Knight: 14:13

But if the pastures and paddocks that they’re living in are just filthy with parasites, they’re just gonna re ingest them and and and get the same issue. So like those paste dewormers, you know, they’re only working while they’re in the system. And so you get good parasite resistance, right, or withdrawal during that time. And then after they’re just going go re ingest all that stuff and then be right back to square one.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 14:37

Yeah. And so, you know, it is it does need to be another kind of holistic approach to this internal parasite control and changing your grazing management. So we’re not grazing down really short. That’s another good strategy with rotational grazing that allows that grass to recover and get taller before you go in and graze. So some of the things that we found in our group now this is important to understand is, you know, the number of folks that had animals that qualified those groups dwindled pretty quickly.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 15:12

That that is one thing to keep in the back of your mind. We didn’t have a lot of group of cattle in the mature animals that used any of the bend, you know, the Benz type products, the white dewormers. Most of those came from younger classifications. Most of our stocker backgrounder guys are using guys and gals are using a combo of an Avramectin family with a Benz family type product. And so that skewed the data just a little bit as well.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 15:45

But what we did find is on average, the threshold that’s kind of set for fecal egg count reduction test. So when you the way we do this is we take samples on day zero. And those samples are submitted and counted two weeks after the control product, whatever that product was given to the animal. Two weeks later, we go out when we pull samples randomly then as well and have those counted. And the hope is that you’re at 90% reduction in the fecal egg counts or greater.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 16:25

And we found that with either a combination of the Benz products with Avramectins, or the Benz alone, we were able to or we saw 90% or greater reduction but with the the avermectin macrocyclic lactone products, we did not see that we didn’t achieve that 90% on average, there were some groups that hit it. And there were some groups that were relatively low in

Colt Knight: 16:55

So what would those products be like? Are those your

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 16:59

They can be so the good question they can be both injectable and pour ons. And so, Dectamax, Ivomec, any of the generics, generic forms of those, and then also your Eprinex and then, you know, Eprinex the long release injectable form, which is called long range, those all are grouped into that macrocyclic lactone family. They’re all relatively similar chemical structure wise. And so we also then went further and we tried to break out our data set into the Gen one, which would be maybe the better way to think about Generation one products or the name brand products, and then the products that after the patents expired and they came out. And we did see a significant difference in the Gen ones being better than the later products after the patents expired.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 18:04

So I think that’s important. And you saw that back, gosh, I think it was twenty ten, two thousand and eight with the NOMS data, the National Animal Health Monitoring Service actually did a study and they found that the Gen-1s were slightly better than the, may be the better way to think about is the generic products. And so our data would agree with that. And so route of administration in those macrocyclic lactone, either pour on versus injectable. A lot of people thought the injectable would be better.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 18:40

Now we didn’t have very many injectable groups and that’s something that we’re waiting to see what the other states pull in. But we didn’t see a difference if it was pour on versus injectable.

Colt Knight: 18:52

And

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 18:53

we thought you’d get more accurate dosing with injectable, right? But it didn’t seem to be the case. It didn’t really make a difference in our groups. So interestingly, our numbers are relatively similar to the Missouri data. And these macrocyclic lactones have an somewhat lower efficacy and when compared to the combinations of a white dewormer or Benz family dewormer, and a macrocyclic lactone or the benzolone.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 19:27

So benzolone, know, Senanthic is a name brand product that’s used a lot, Safeguard is a name brand product that’s used a lot, Valbazen, etc. So there’s a lot of those different type products that are out there that would fall into those type families. So the one thing to keep in the back of your mind is to make sure you use products that get those inhibited stage internal parasites, those ones that are, quote unquote, dormant in the animal.

Colt Knight: 19:56

So if you were working with a, let’s say a new beef cattle producer that’s got a small herd, what would be your recommendations for them on their internal parasite regime?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 20:10

I think I would I would encourage them to work with their local veterinarian, you know, have that good veterinary client patient relationship, begin initiating some fecal monitoring to test and see where you’re at. Be mindful of younger animals not developing that immunity and likely be the focus of your control. And then thing that I need to, that is a bit hard for me to really make a strong recommendation on right now is what do we do with the adult animals? They’re the ones that are shedding, even though the counts may be low, just the sheer volume of feces that they deposit on the pasture every year can increase the exposure to the younger animals. But right now, know, my game plan or my recommendation would be to only treat the mature animals that need treated.

Colt Knight: 21:10

And I think there’s also some good husbandry practices that we can use to monitor the potential of internal parasites. And I harp on this a lot in my my talks with beef cattle producers, but you should be body condition scoring your animals on a regular basis. That body condition scoring is going to tell you whether your animals are gaining weight, maintaining weight or losing weight. This is a free, easy to do practice. If we do it on a regular basis, we know if we’re doing a good job managing our cattle because if they’re gaining weight, that’s good.

Colt Knight: 21:49

They’re maintaining weight on our mature animals, you know, we know we’re doing a good job. But if we start seeing it, that body condition score drop from week to week or every two weeks, we can catch these issues before they become a problem. So if we just see just a little bit of body condition score drop on our herd average, we know something’s wrong. Let’s figure this out before there’s a crash. And I think that’s a a good practice to keep in mind is that body condition scoring.

Colt Knight: 22:21

Some other things we can do, especially when it comes to internal parasites is maybe look at their hair coat, look at their growth rate.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 22:29

Yeah, exactly. Keep an eye on them, right? I mean, good animal husbandry. The other thing, you know, that’s important is sometimes when we see an animal, one of the things we always talk about, right is, you know, this kind of lump jaw or this kind of build up underneath the jaw.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 22:50

But that, that doesn’t always mean that they’re heavily burdened with internal parasites. So that’s where that fecal egg count can come in and help you check. So yeah, there’s just solid management practices all around that we can do to look at how heavily burdened are they and is it really affecting performance?

Colt Knight: 23:09

Sometimes we get busy with our day to day lives. Sometimes we get in like the zone when we’re out feeding or watering the animals. And yes, we’re looking at them. But are we really looking at them? And are we missing these little cues that we could be picking up?

Colt Knight: 23:25

I remember when I was managing a teaching farm as a graduate student, and we had a lot of student workers and things, on weekends, after hours, they came in, they went through the motions. Yes. They fed the animals. Yes. They watered the animals, but they weren’t finding the ones that were sick or injured or whatnot.

Colt Knight: 23:44

And sometimes folks would say that I was jinxed or cursed or whatever because I was found sick and dead animals. The reason that I found them is because I was looking. And one of the I had to institute a a new policy with the undergraduate students. We would actually I would force them to count the animals in pins, Not because I thought that they were running away or disappearing, but those students had to look at those animals to count them. They were pointing their finger at individual animal and they had to look at each individual one.

Colt Knight: 24:17

They weren’t just eyes glazed over the pen, right? Yeah. And it was amazing how much better the husbandry got when folks were. And you, as a farmer, going out and looking at your animals on a day to day, you can pick up when things are wrong. It’s like knowing when your kids are sick.

Colt Knight: 24:35

Their cues are there. And if we monitor that situation, we can pick up on these things before it becomes a real issue.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 24:45

Yeah, and I think you know, we sometimes we forget, you know, and these parasites have been around for centuries. Doctor. Smith Yes. It affects all species, right? So even even pasture poultry can have issues with internal parasites, though not as common probably, but that doesn’t mean that they’re completely eliminated from that risk.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 25:11

Swine systems that you move out and pasture systems can, know,

Colt Knight: 25:18

That’s actually one of the top problems I see with folks raising pigs outside are internal parasites.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 25:26

Just not common when you’re in confinement And you

Colt Knight: 25:30

know, honestly, that is one of the major reasons that swine production moved inside were pathogens and internal parasites. And so folks can are just pouring feed to pigs and they’re not getting any bigger or it’s taking them three times as long to get to the same size that they should be at six months old. And most of the times, it’s just a parasite issue.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 25:57

Dave where our small ruminants are, you know, they know the impact of them because they tend to be pretty sensitive to them.

Colt Knight: 26:04

Yeah, the unfortunate part with small ruminants is they die. Yeah. Dave You know, our cows are not going to die from internal parasites. Pigs usually aren’t going to die from internal parasites. Now their production is going to go out of whack pretty bad.

Colt Knight: 26:19

But sheep and goats, they just up and die

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 26:22

on you. Yeah. And especially on the sheep and goat that reminded me, one of the things that we’ve seen in our work too, is what we’ve already seen on the small ruminant size. Cupuria is one of those that in our fourteen day samples, you know, those, they were still there, still pretty prominent in a lot of the macrocyclic lactone samples. So them and brown stomach worm are the stomach worms.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 26:48

And we’ve kind of seen that creeping up. The one thing we don’t know is the differences in reproductive. In other words, there’s some of those species actually shed more eggs than other species. But, you know, they they still were there after the products were given those of the macrocyclic lactone products were given. So we know that there’s been some concerns about potential resistance in those two classes.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 27:17

And we our data would tend to support that.

Colt Knight: 27:22

There were some work done with with different sheep breeds to see, you know, because folks will claim one breed is parasite resistant, one breed is not parasite resistant, so on and so forth. And when we actually dug in and measured to the fecal egg counts and stuff on these different breeds, we found out there was as much variation within a breed as there are amongst breeds. So on average, one breed might be a little better than the next. That doesn’t mean that you have the average or above average animal. And you can still have severe parasite issues even with so called parasite resistant breeds.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 27:58

Yeah, yeah. So climates is going to have a big influence. And you mentioned that at the beginning of the show that climate can certainly have an influence on that.

Colt Knight: 28:08

Yeah. And you know, here in Maine, where we historically would have long, really cold winters, a lot of the parasites just couldn’t live here then. Winters are not as long. There’s a lot more freeze thaw that we’re experiencing now, And these parasites are able to survive up here now. And parasites are adapting, you know, they become resistant to drugs.

Colt Knight: 28:34

Well, they’re also becoming resistant to harsh weather. And we’re seeing parasites move further and further north that we never saw before.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 28:43

Yeah, so I think, you know, it’s I’m anxious to see, you know, what the other states find and if it agrees and is in line with what our data and Missouri data shows. And it had been since the 80s that something like this on a field study in Kentucky was done. And so for us, it you know, certainly time to go back through with a field study to look at this again. And I think that this will continue to keep it on the front of people’s minds now as we move forward with management changes. And, you know, sometimes these best management practices that we talk about are, are good solid management practices, from a whole lot of other reasons, right?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 29:28

You know, managing the forages with rotational grazing, all of those things can be beneficial in the whole scheme of the management. And oftentimes, level of improved management leads to multiple improvements of management across the entire system.

Colt Knight: 29:45

Well, Doctor. Lehmkuhler, we appreciate you coming on to the podcast. We always learn a lot. You are a wealth of information on a wealth of different topics. And, I’m going to ask you a couple rapid fire questions.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 29:59

Oh no, here we go.

Colt Knight: 30:00

Let’s, let’s see. Let’s see what your answers are.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 30:03

Okay.

Colt Knight: 30:03

Cause you’ve, you visited Maine. Is this your fourth trip?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 30:06

I think this, this is third or fourth. Can’t I forgot now. I think this is third.

Colt Knight: 30:12

Okay, third trip. So first rapid question. What is your favorite food that you’ve had in Maine? Oh,

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 30:23

it’s it’s a toss-up, but I’m probably gonna have to go with your bacon wrapped scallops.

Colt Knight: 30:28

Bacon wrapped scallops. You have had multiple forms of lobster rolls now. You’ve had mayonnaise and butter. Do you prefer mayonnaise or butter lobster rolls?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 30:39

I like them equally. Like them equally. Yes.

Colt Knight: 30:42

What has been your favorite outdoor activity?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 30:48

I’m going to say, let’s see. That’s a good question. Ah, going out on the lake in your boat that did not start and trolling the entire lake fishing and wondering whether or not the battery was going to last till we got back.

Colt Knight: 31:09

That’s a fun story. So I promised Dr. Lehmkuhler that I would take him fishing on my boat. And I’ve got my brother, as a wedding gift, gave me his 21 foot, 200 horsepower bass boat, which is not ideally suited to Maine lakes and rivers because all the rocks because the fiberglass is is pretty rough on the rocks are pretty rough on the fiberglass. But anyway, I told Jeff, I got this amazing boat.

Colt Knight: 31:40

I’m gonna take you fishing. And so the day we’re gonna go fishing, the teaching farm manager suckered me into barbecuing for a student event. So Jeff and I went and we made hamburgers and red hot dogs. And I think was that your first red hot dog experience?

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 31:59

It was my first red hot dog experience.

Colt Knight: 32:02

And so we barely got to the river on time to go fishing.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 32:08

It was close to dark. Had about an hour,

Colt Knight: 32:10

We didn’t have a lot of time. And I was gonna take him to my secret honey hole spot. But you need the motor to get there. And so I was like, Well, we can’t screw with the motor all day long. So I put the trolling motor in and we went fishing and we weren’t catching anything.

Colt Knight: 32:27

We’re you know, I promised him this good fishing experience. Then right before dark, the fish turned on and we just started just started slaying them. And then we had to put the boat up in the dark.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 32:38

In the dark. And how many times some of

Colt Knight: 32:42

that

Colt Knight: 32:42

daggone bait caster that I bird nest that sucker.

Colt Knight: 32:45

Yeah, I took it away from him and gave him a Zebco,

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 32:48

I think. Dave Yeah, it’s been a long time since I used a bait caster. And let’s just say that I need to stick with something a little easier.

Colt Knight: 32:57

Dave Snoopy pole from now on,

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 33:01

please. But didn’t keep us from catching anything.

Colt Knight: 33:05

Yeah. All right. What was your favorite touristy thing you’ve done since I know,

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 33:10

I enjoyed the trip we took up the Moose Lake and going out and that’s just a beautiful area and actually, you know, an area that I’d like to go back and spend some time hiking up through there again, that was just really beautiful.

Colt Knight: 33:24

If you’re gonna spend a lot of time hiking, it’s there’s a balance. So if you go in the late spring, you get nice weather, not many tourists, but the black flies and the mosquitoes are out. If you wait till the summer, it’s a little hotter. It’s not hot because it’s Maine, but there’s more tourists. And sometimes up in that region, you get a lot of the, side by side traffic and stuff that time.

Colt Knight: 33:55

And fall is also nice. Again, but you may be overlapping with a lot of the hunting traffic and stuff. So there’s there’s a lot more folks out there out and about.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 34:06

Yeah, that’s true. I mean, I can see that but I bet that area would be beautiful when the trees are turning colors and yeah,

Colt Knight: 34:14

that’s a that’s a hard one because family, friends and folks, I usually recommend they come in summer, so there’s not any weather issues, but everyone wants to come up and see the leaves changing. And I’m like, we get a one week window because usually around the October, the leaves change and we get a couple days of beautiful leaves and then the wind blows and they’re just all gone.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 34:39

All gone.

Colt Knight: 34:40

Yeah, it’s not a big window. So you really gotta

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 34:43

Hit it just right.

Colt Knight: 34:43

Gotta hit it just right. It’s better if you drive up for that because that way you can see the the leaves changing from all the way up the coastline and you’re you’re definitely going to hit somewhere where it’s at the sweet spot coming up that way.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 34:57

Is that makes Yeah, that’s right. I mean, it’s for us, know, the other challenges is what kind of fall do we have? Do we have enough moisture? Sometimes you just don’t get a really good that they they tend to just fall off before they make a nice pretty color.

Colt Knight: 35:14

Jeff, I’m not gonna keep you here any longer. Listeners, if you have questions, comments, concerns, please email us at extension.farmcast@maine.edu. We love to get suggestions for episode topics and hear what you think about the podcast so far.

Jeff Lehmkuhler: 35:35

Thanks, Dr. Knight, for having me up here again. This has been always a good time and it’s always fun to get up here and see the great state of Maine and different seasons. So this was a first for winter, and I really appreciate you having me up.