Niki Sargent: 00:04
Like, having him coach me is trying to make me more comfortable in front of, and having this is like, okay, breathe through.
Colt Knight: 00:10
It’s just a blue microphone. It won’t bite you. Promise.
Niki Sargent: 00:19
I wouldn’t agree to this with anybody else. Yeah.
Colt Knight: 00:23
So what do you think?
Niki Sargent: 00:24
Yep.
Colt Knight: 00:24
You ready to, yep, to kick this pig? Yes. Alright. Let’s kick it.
Colt Knight: 00:29
Alright.
Niki Sargent: 00:30
Oink oink.
Colt Knight: 00:31
Welcome to the Maine Farmcast, and I am your host, Dr. Colt Knight, associate extension professor and state livestock specialist for the University of Maine Cooperative Extension. And today, I am joined by an industry leader, an activist, and my good friend, Nikki Sargent, owner of Windham Butcher Shop and Southpaw Packing Plant. Is it Southpaw Packing Company Plant? I messed it up already, didn’t I?
Niki Sargent: 01:02
It’s alright.
Colt Knight: 01:03
Southpaw Packing?
Niki Sargent: 01:04
Southpaw Packing Plant.
Colt Knight: 01:05
In Windham?
Niki Sargent: 01:06
Yes. And Southpaw Meat Market in Raymond.
Colt Knight: 01:09
In Raymond. Yes. Very good. So she has her fingers on the pulse of the meat industry with livestock producers, but we’re not here to talk about that today, even though we’d probably love to hear your meat-cutting stories from the packing perspective. But today, we’re here to talk about your mental health initiative, Slicing Through the Stigma.
Colt Knight: 01:37
And so, for the folks that are probably acutely aware of the mental health aspect of farming and just day-to-day life anymore, we’re losing a lot of farmers to suicide, veterans to suicide, and things. And so you’re gearing up to help people get help so we don’t have to live through these dastardly events.
Niki Sargent: 02:04
Yeah. Creating awareness.
Colt Knight: 02:06
Creating awareness. That’s a good one.
Niki Sargent: 02:08
And an open conversation around mental health and well-being.
Colt Knight: 02:13
And this is gonna be new for me because I have never talked about social issues before in my professional capacity. I am a scientist, so I just talk about data and experience with livestock producers. So I’m going to be learning on the job here on this one. So we appreciate having you here with us to talk about this topic.
Niki Sargent: 02:36
Well, what’s interesting is I’m not a professional. And I always disclose that, that I’m not the professional, I’m the advocate. And that I learn every day as I go on from the professionals, but I am here as a voice and someone who is out spreading awareness and opening the conversation for people.
Colt Knight: 02:56
Well, first, why don’t you tell us about your initiative, kind of like the 30,000-foot view on it. And then I kind of want to go back and track how you came about being in this industry and how it relates to your mental health initiative?
Niki Sargent: 03:14
Yeah, no problem. So we created Slicing Through the Stigma initiative, and it is partnered with NAMI Maine. And that is the National Alliance on— I always get it wrong, but it’s the national alliance for— and I’m gonna freeze on the microphone right now for it. So—
Colt Knight: 03:35
I can pause if you want to look it up on the phone.
Niki Sargent: 03:37
Heather— that’s right. I have it all. It’s NAMI Maine. So we’ll cut that out. But—
Colt Knight: 03:43
We’ll put a link to it in the—
Niki Sargent: 03:44
description. So if you go to NAMI Maine, not only is it for information to get there, for trainings and resources, but also it’s to raise funds so that we can continue to educate people in the industry, keep people to have their jobs, to have access to clinicians. There’s so much that goes on behind the scenes that people don’t know. Slicing Through the Stigma came about because I was seeing a high rate of suicide within the farming community right around us, very close to people we knew. And I felt like we had to do something about it.
Niki Sargent: 04:23
And that’s where we started Slicing Through the Stigma. It was actually where the name came in and where we really made it, you know, a campaign. We had already started a mental health and a mental awareness program through our business, but we just didn’t have the voice out there. And that kinda goes back to where you had asked about where I started and where it all came from. When we opened Southpaw Packing Company and opened Windham Butcher Shop, I was in the facility more and seeing farmers on a daily basis and developing a rapport and a relationship with them.
Niki Sargent: 05:05
And as I developed a rapport, they felt comfortable sharing stories. And the more stories I heard, I was hearing that there was a real lack of access to healthcare on all levels. People weren’t getting to the doctors. They weren’t seeing their eye doctor, or they weren’t seeing their physical therapist, or they didn’t have access to any of that. They didn’t even have access to healthcare.
Niki Sargent: 05:31
And so the more stories I heard, the more I felt compelled to try to put together resources for them. I also had individuals coming in and sitting at my desk and telling me that they were struggling with substance abuse issues and that they weren’t sharing that with their spouses. I had an individual tell me that they had gone through a critical incident and were really struggling with— I don’t know what the right word is, but they were having issues with life or death. And we were able to connect them through Man Therapy, which is through NAMI, and it’s a private resource for them. And through that, this individual was able to seek help with the incident that he had gone through.
Niki Sargent: 06:20
And it helped. A year later, he came back and said how it saved him. But those were the conversations that I was having on a daily basis with individuals that were coming to me and just downloading their life. We saw people through COVID lose their spouses unexpectedly and quickly, and then they were having to pick up pieces of their life and, you know, deal with grief and loss. So there’s a whole combination of things that are happening within our farming community that people don’t talk about or understand.
Niki Sargent: 06:53
I don’t know if that answers it or if it was—
Colt Knight: 06:54
No. No. That’s really good. I’ve never really had to deal with serious grief issues until here recently. My father passed away last year.
Colt Knight: 07:06
And it’s amazing when someone really close to you passes, how that affects your overall mental health and just how you deal with things on a day-to-day basis.
Niki Sargent: 07:17
Yes. And a lot of people in this industry and us farmers, we just kind of push through. Yeah, we—
Colt Knight: 07:22
were taught to be tough. We’re not, you know, no crying, no showing emotions or anything. So you kind of internalize that. And so sometimes something will just hit you and remind you of that person or something, and it will really—
Niki Sargent: 07:37
Yes.
Colt Knight: 07:37
really start a spiral of emotions that can go any number of places that you just can’t even predict. Yep. So—
Niki Sargent: 07:46
Well, and that’s kind of where the other piece led to, working in a processing plant, obviously, what we do for a living every day—
Colt Knight: 07:54
So let’s go back a little bit. How did you get involved in the processing industry?
Niki Sargent: 08:00
My husband, it’s what he has done since he was like four years old. And it was his dream and his passion to take his side hobby— or actually it wasn’t even a side hobby, because he was working in the industry his whole entire life. But it was his passion to own a facility. And that’s when we purchased Windham Butcher Shop. And I gave up my career in health and human services to help him run the business.
Niki Sargent: 08:29
And that’s where I came into the industry. I’ve always had an ag background because I’ve worked on farms my whole life. I showed horses professionally. I’ve always had small animals. So the ag industry is not new to me.
Niki Sargent: 08:43
It was just the processing end of it that was new to me. I’d helped my husband when he cut up deer when we were younger and trying to make a living and trying to make ends meet; you would do deer on the side. But that was about my background in the processing industry. So I’m fairly new to the industry.
Colt Knight: 09:05
Because you all bought Windham Butcher Shop in 2018? Yes. 2018?
Niki Sargent: 09:11
Took it over in December 2018.
Colt Knight: 09:13
Okay.
Niki Sargent: 09:14
Yep. He had worked there prior and had been there for years.
Colt Knight: 09:18
And then how long after that did you open the Southpaw packing facilities?
Niki Sargent: 09:22
The Southpaw Meat Market came about in, I think, February ‘2— in that timeframe.
Colt Knight: 09:31
And that’s more of your retail meat cuts type place. More of your traditional butcher shop, not a meat processing plant.
Niki Sargent: 09:39
And our daughter, our middle daughter, runs it and she does the cutting there. And then now our youngest daughter has jumped on board and is working in there for the time being as well.
Colt Knight: 09:50
And I had one of your daughters in class here.
Niki Sargent: 09:52
The youngest, yes.
Colt Knight: 09:53
At the university.
Niki Sargent: 09:54
Yes.
Colt Knight: 09:54
And I’ve got to tell our listeners, having children of folks that own a meat processing plant in class is amazing because they will bring you steaks and all kinds of stuff. And it was great.
Niki Sargent: 10:10
Well, it helps when you’re her favorite professor too.
Colt Knight: 10:15
And I was probably the meanest one to her.
Niki Sargent: 10:20
So that’s kind of, you know, I mean, we’ve always been in the industry. We raised our own animals. We did all— you know, we raised our own pigs, and so we had the background there. So the agricultural industry and livestock industry isn’t new to us. But like I said, processing was to me.
Niki Sargent: 10:37
And I was just taken back with, I guess, the industry as a whole on what I was seeing farmers go through. And then being in the processing plant, I was even more surprised working with the inspectors. And a lot of people don’t see that side either. As we run a USDA facility, you’re not supposed to have a relationship with your inspectors. However, it’s hard not to know your inspectors and see them on a daily basis regularly and generally get to know who they are or know—
Colt Knight: 11:14
It’s a little something different when you compare, like, a JBS plant. It’s got 40,000 animals coming through, you know, versus a small mom-and-pop place here in a rural setting.
Niki Sargent: 11:25
So you do get to know them, you get to know the federal vets. And my thing with all of them is that what they do for a living affects them. And also, in general, get to understand their side of the industry as well. But also learning about veterinarians and talking to them. I mean, obviously, working in big horse farms and the work I did prior, understanding that veterinarians actually have a huge suicide rate in the country, and it’s increasing.
Niki Sargent: 12:02
And it’s something that we need to address and we need to look at. And there is a lack of veterinarians. But when you look at what they do for work, the stress that they’re under, when you—
Colt Knight: 12:15
It’s not just the stress of their job, they are under financial stress. Huge. You can’t believe. I think the average cost of vet school these days is $400,000—
Niki Sargent: 12:24
Yeah. And we tackle that. When I usually do these talks, it’s with a therapist by my side so they can give you more statistics and give you that piece of it. And then I bring in my piece of it and we combine it. But it is the financial burden and then there’s grief. You know, veterinarians go into their work to save animals.
Niki Sargent: 12:49
And then you look at a lot of the times they’re having to look at you and tell you that they’re going to have to put your animal down. And that’s a piece that doesn’t get addressed often, or it’s not taught as well as we should be teaching. So I think those are things that we’re changing in the industry as well: how do we teach grief and how do we support them through those hard conversations? And then how do we help the person on the other side that’s having that conversation with a vet? And there are people doing this work.
Niki Sargent: 13:20
There are a lot of good therapists right here in Maine that are helping veterinarians with their jobs in the facilities. So it’s nice that we’re seeing that change. But yeah, so there’s a whole gamut of things happening that people don’t see. Right now in the state of Maine, the PFAS affects the farmers, and they’re seeing that trend. When your family farm, generational for years, has gone on and then all of a sudden, sorry, you can’t do your farming anymore. That has an impact on your mental health.
Niki Sargent: 13:53
I think people really wanted to— I had a conversation today in the meat industry. And what we found is sometimes people don’t— when you hear mental health, they shut right down and they don’t wanna have the conversation. And for me, it’s more well-being. So what is that conversation and how do we have it? And one of the things that we talked about is, for me, well-being’s about financial well-being.
Niki Sargent: 14:20
It’s about how can we create more, giving people morale boosters. What can we do about life-work balance? It’s creating different atmospheres and ways to have the conversation. Because mental health for people is different depending on who you are and what you’re going through. And those are the conversations we’re having on a daily basis.
Niki Sargent: 14:39
So we take the stigma out of it so you can have a conversation and engage in it. But also we open it up that it’s not— because people hear mental health, they’re like, you know, social work, or they’re thinking, you know, the big words or suicide, and that’s all you think about. And it’s like, no, no, no, no. This is such a deeper conversation about other things. And that’s kind of what I’m trying to do with people, have other conversations.
Colt Knight: 15:05
So how do you connect with these folks? I mean, you’re working with folks through your meat processing plant. You’ve got this program, but maybe someone that’s listening to this podcast, let’s say that they’re having some thoughts or they need to talk to someone about their mental health, what steps should they take?
Niki Sargent: 15:28
So what I encourage, if you wanted to, you actually could go to the NAMI site, so NAMI Maine, and then there are resources there. Or on our Southpaw Packing site, there is a wellness page, or our Southpaw Meat Market site, there is a— we call it the nourishment page, and you can click on different links. So we have a link to connect you with 988, which is a resource, a crisis line. We have a link if you were looking for a therapist, which I can actually talk about. I recently started EMDR therapy, which is a traumatic event kind of therapy.
Niki Sargent: 16:10
It’s very similar to how they help people through PTSD. And what I did is I went online, and it’s on our site, and you can go on, click a button, and you can search for a therapist in your area. You just put in what you’re looking for, the area you’re looking in, you can put in your insurance. I mean, it filters out. And within a few minutes, I had a therapist within 10 miles of my home, and I can do therapy via Zoom.
Niki Sargent: 16:38
So it helps the rural folks out there. And that’s a resource that’s online and available to anyone. And it’s a beautiful resource. And I can tell you it’s doing wonders for me. There are other resources on there.
Niki Sargent: 16:52
So on our site, you can go in— there’s Man Therapy. So if you want to do it, it’s totally private. And you go in and you can click that button, and that will take you through their site. And that’s through NAMI as well. There are different resources available to you online, and it’s all private.
Niki Sargent: 17:15
And I think that’s what’s important for people to know. So you can do it from the comfort of your home.
Colt Knight: 17:20
Very good.
Niki Sargent: 17:21
I was trying to think. There’s the NAMI helpline, which, if we can help people find, the veterans crisis line, and then we have the Maine crisis hotline as well.
Colt Knight: 17:34
Very good. And the University of Maine Cooperative Extension has some resources too; we’ll post those—
Niki Sargent: 17:39
Yes.
Colt Knight: 17:39
in the description as well. So all the resources that Nikki’s mentioning, we’ll make sure to post links to all that stuff so that it’s easy to find and easy to get to.
Niki Sargent: 17:51
Yes. And we’ve created— and I think I brought some for you, but I think I left them out there— but we created, with the support of NAMI, we have a card, we have two cards that we’ve created. And they’re little pocket-sized cards that give you this information. It tells if mental health is affecting you, they’re just little steps and they’re pocket size and you can just keep them on your desk. We created one for the workplace.
Niki Sargent: 18:17
And then we also, with the help of NAMI, created a grief card. One of the things you and I were just talking about is struggling with grief. I don’t always know the right thing to say. I’m not very good with my words. And most of the time I’m like, Oh, that sucks.
Niki Sargent: 18:34
Or, Death sucks. Or, I’m sorry. Or, I just don’t ever know what to say. So we created a card that actually gives you the right information and some guidance around that and how you can either support yourself or support somebody through a traumatic event or just a simple— you know, if you’ve lost somebody, how do you help them? The loss of a pet.
Niki Sargent: 18:55
I mean, you look at us farmers. I still cry every day over my dog. And having that support is something that’s important.
Colt Knight: 19:03
I mentioned losing my father last year. So he was in West Virginia, I drove all the way down there for his passing. And then I made the seventeen to eighteen-hour drive back to Maine. And then when I got here, I had a litter of piglets born during one of those horrible derecho storms. And it was, like, freezing cold and the wind was blowing, like, thirty, forty miles an hour.
Colt Knight: 19:30
And I lost the entire litter of pigs on top of losing my dad. And that was just like the straw that broke the camel’s back, I guess. It just flooded over me.
Niki Sargent: 19:44
And I’m sorry because that is really hard. Yeah.
Colt Knight: 19:48
Yeah. It was miserable.
Niki Sargent: 19:49
Yeah. That’s a lot to take on in one swoop. Well, and that’s where I have that grief card, because there are times when it’s like, Ugh, what do you say to that? And then also being someone just to listen. I might not have an answer for you for that, but just to be there to listen to you and hear your story.
Niki Sargent: 20:08
And I think that’s important for people to know too. Yeah. Just hear your story. Yep.
Colt Knight: 20:14
So is there anything else that you would like us to know about the program? I know you’ve got some promotional stuff coming up that you wanted to spread the word about, but is there anything else about the program you’d like to highlight while you’re here?
Niki Sargent: 20:27
Well, I think it’s just important that you can be the difference. Definitely it’s okay— talk— it’s okay not to be okay and it’s okay to talk about it. And I would love to see people feeling comfortable. And if you don’t feel comfortable, there are always programs, like I said, online that you can access where it’s private. And as for Slicing Through the Stigma, you can make donations online.
Niki Sargent: 20:55
We would love some donations. We’d love to keep some therapists out there and keep their jobs and keep them working so that we can access them, especially with all the budget cuts happening. So it would be nice to keep them in our back pockets because they are really helpful. What else about Slicing Through the Stigma? It’s needed right now.
Niki Sargent: 21:20
It’s really needed right now. I think we’re all hurting and feeling a little bit lost right now with just everything that’s happening. So having the extra support is important. So, yeah.
Colt Knight: 21:32
I know I’ve gotten to know a few folks here in Maine through my job as a livestock specialist that have had to deal with suicide on the farm.
Niki Sargent: 21:43
Yes.
Colt Knight: 21:43
Because they lost— you know, either they had financial issues and they were gonna lose the farm or one farm was dealing with— just couldn’t afford to keep up with regulations. And he ended up committing suicide because he thought he was gonna lose everything. So when you know these people, it really hits hard, right?
Niki Sargent: 22:11
Yeah. Well, and it’s for you to be able to talk about it or get help for you, and then also for the people around that person. And I think people need to know just because you talk about it doesn’t mean someone’s gonna do that. And that was a hard lesson for me to learn because we’ve had many people around us that have taken their life. And so having the conversation, I think, just makes more awareness around it and seeing the signs. And there’s a training, NAMI Maine offers a training, and those trainings are great because you can actually start seeing the signs, how to be there to support someone.
Niki Sargent: 22:58
And I highly recommend signing up and taking those trainings. It’s not just— I mean, we talk about the farming community, but farmers do so much. We feed people. We’re in the grocery stores, we’re retail. So it really extends out further than that.
Niki Sargent: 23:18
And so I think if we’re getting help and nurturing ourselves, then it also shows that we can nurture our community around us.
Colt Knight: 23:26
I became a livestock specialist because I’m not a people person. I’m an animal person. I guess I didn’t figure that into the job description. Because you go out to a farm to help people with their livestock husbandry issues, genetics, reproduction, what should I feed these? That kind of thing.
Colt Knight: 23:50
I’m trained for that. I wasn’t trained for the flood of, like, emotional dumping that I get from farmers.
Niki Sargent: 23:59
Right.
Colt Knight: 24:00
Because, you know, I’m a trusted individual, and I’ve always been a good listener because I don’t talk a lot. And so people have always kinda opened up to me just because they know I’ll just listen and they don’t have to worry about me interjecting and stopping talking or whatnot. But, you know, that’s led to a lot of midnight text messages with producers, just pouring their hearts out over it. And it’s not even livestock stuff anymore. You know, I get to hear about kids and families—
Niki Sargent: 24:32
I’m guilty.
Colt Knight: 24:33
Everything under the sun anymore.
Niki Sargent: 24:38
And I think that’s— you’re someone who’s comfortable. People go to you and they’re comfortable talking to you. Because you go into their homes, you’re in their farms, that’s their safe space, and their farms are their livelihood. And you go in and you help secure that and you help make it thrive. And so they do feel comfortable with you.
Niki Sargent: 24:59
That’s like when people were coming to me all the time; I’m a comfortable person to tell their story to. And sometimes that can be a heavy burden to carry. So you have to make sure that you nurture yourself and that you’re caring for yourself and your well-being as well. And learning to say, okay, I’ve got to take a step back or I can’t handle that right now. I think sometimes we take on too much.
Niki Sargent: 25:28
We all need someone we can go to and talk to and be open with. And I think that’s important. And for farmers that are so rural and secluded, that’s hard. I mean, there are people out there that don’t get to see people for a week or more because they are so secluded when you really think of Maine and some of the remote areas. So when they finally get to talk to somebody, it’s like, wow, I get to talk to somebody today.
Colt Knight: 25:51
I’ve experienced that as well, especially like up in The County.
Niki Sargent: 25:55
Yeah, way up there. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it’s important that we have avenues for people to reach out, talk about any of the issues that are going on or just what’s happening on the farm or what they need help with. And with finances that are happening right now or the drought that’s happening—
Niki Sargent: 26:16
I mean, there are so many little things that affect our farmers and our farm producers that maybe the outside world doesn’t realize are truly affecting them. I know for us running a business right now, finances, cost of goods, health insurance, how to pay my employees, how do I keep up with the changing regs— there’s so much stress going on in small business and it takes its toll. And how do you keep going every day? And those are conversations we have with small businesses all the time.
Niki Sargent: 26:51
But we surround ourselves with other people that we can communicate with. And I think that’s important, sharing.
Colt Knight: 26:58
And speaking of sharing, you had some things coming up that you wanted to share with the listeners.
Niki Sargent: 27:04
The events that I have going on? Yeah. Okay. So we are gonna be kicking off some events at the retail market after hours. We call it the soirees.
Niki Sargent: 27:16
And the first one is a wine and cheese event in October. And that is using cheese from our local farmers, and proceeds from that will be going to NAMI Maine. And then we have a hat bar so people can come in and select a hat, like a cowboy hat, and they can design it and make it. And that too will also be going— proceeds from that will be going to NAMI.
Colt Knight: 27:46
So I’m really interested in that one.
Niki Sargent: 27:49
Yes. And we might have an extra one that you really would want because we’re trying to launch a bourbon and hat one as well. A bourbon tasting and hat bar.
Colt Knight: 27:59
Well—
Niki Sargent: 28:00
That one’s hard.
Colt Knight: 28:01
I have quite a sophisticated bourbon palette if you needed a little bit of—
Niki Sargent: 28:08
That’s why I’m trying to get that one in there. Because we want to do a bourbon and meat pairing to raise money as well.
Colt Knight: 28:14
When I got invited down to the North Carolina State University barbecue camp this summer, they actually had a class in that camp about pairing bourbon with barbecue.
Niki Sargent: 28:30
Yes.
Colt Knight: 28:31
And it was awesome.
Niki Sargent: 28:32
That’s what we’re trying to do. And then we have Mr. Colt Knight coming down in October at the end of the month, and he will be talking about— well, I think it’s gonna be question and answers. Ask Colt. And that same day, we also have some guest artists coming in to sell their wares and their goods from our local community as well.
Niki Sargent: 28:55
So we’re holding some open houses and hoping to get people through the door and open up the conversation, and at the same time, money and awareness for Slicing Through the Stigma. We’ll be going through November, but the November calendar is not done yet.
Colt Knight: 29:14
I have a pig conference, I think, in October. So don’t do the hat-shaping thing then.
Niki Sargent: 29:19
I think it is that week.
Colt Knight: 29:21
Of course it is.
Niki Sargent: 29:22
We’ll be doing a couple, I think. Yep.
Colt Knight: 29:26
Well, Nikki, thanks for sitting with us.
Niki Sargent: 29:29
Thank you.
Colt Knight: 29:31
And I’d like to remind the listeners, if you have questions, comments, concerns, suggested episodes, don’t hesitate to reach out to extension.farmcast@maine.edu.
Niki Sargent: 29:49
Alright. Can you edit that?
Colt Knight: 29:51
What am I gonna edit?
Niki Sargent: 29:52
We had a couple of goof-ups.
Colt Knight: 29:57
I didn’t see anything worth editing.
Niki Sargent: 30:01
Oops. I froze. Like, I had a couple things I wanted to say. Like, NAMI— one definitely was a fully blue sign. National Alliance on it.
Niki Sargent: 30:08
Why couldn’t I say that? I know what it is, and I could not get that out. It was like, I don’t know why I can’t say it. Like, it’s right there. You can see it.
Niki Sargent: 30:18
But yeah. So does that work for you?
Colt Knight: 30:20
No.